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 The Intelligence Stat

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How do you think the Intelligence Stat should be approached?
It's fine the way it is. (I will be mad at you if you pick this)
31%
 31% [ 5 ]
System 1 "Urahara Route"
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
System 2 "Tech System"
25%
 25% [ 4 ]
We should apply both systems.
31%
 31% [ 5 ]
We should give users a choice between the two.
13%
 13% [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 16
 

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Ayame Ryouta

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PostSubject: The Intelligence Stat   Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:52 pm

As I'm sure many of you have noticed, several characters on this forum have quite low intelligences, because, on this site, intelligence is something of a 'dump stat' as there is no real way to measure it and use it in combat without metagaming (sometimes). So, my proposal is to make the intelligence stat a little more desirable to have by giving benefits to high intelligence scores. Thus far, I have come up with two systems governing intelligence that I think would be fair.

System 1: "Urahara Route"
This system is designed to emulate how an extremely intelligent character like Urahara, while perhaps not as physically strong or fast as a character like Yammy, might be able to best him using his prodigious intellect. In this system, a person who is fighting someone who is 15 or lower intelligence points than them gets a bonus to dodge attacks. That is to say, if Combatant A has 15 more intel points than Combatant B, he gets a a bonus to dodge as if he had more points in speed. The bonus to dodge increases we'll say by the number of points the two intel scores differ in starting at a +5 bonus at a 10 point disparity with an additional +1 bonus for every point of intel disparity past the 10 point mark.

So for example, let's say
Combatant A has 20 speed, and 30 intel

and

Combatant B has 20 speed, and 20 intel.

Combatant A has 10 points more in intel than Combatant B, and so would receive a +5 bonus to dodge or otherwise avoid an attack as if he had an extra 5 points in speed. In this case, 25 speed as opposed to 20 speed doesn't make much of a difference, but let's say

Combatant A has 30 speed and 40 intel

and

Combatant B has 30 speed and 20 intel.

Since Combatant A's intel is 20 points greater than Combatant B's, which, after the 10 point mark, is another 10 points, he/she would gain a dodge bonus to speed of +15, which is definitely more significant.

Hopefully those two examples have made it clear what I mean by this system. If you have questions, please ask, I will do my best to clarify.


System 2 "Tech System"
This system is a lot simpler. As I'm sure you know, a lot of the characters in Bleach have more than the number of techs each of our characters are legally allowed. For example, Hitsugaya's Hyorinmaru has a hell of a lot more techs than we are allowed. So...this system is basically, the more intel you have, the more extra techs you get to have. I propose for this one that for every 10 intel points past 10, a character gets to learn a new technique, whether they be Shinigami, Hollow/Arrancar, Bount, Quincy, or Superhuman.

So for example, Character A has 20 intel. In addition to the 3 Shikai techs/abilities that he will eventually be able to obtain, he gets an extra one free of charge. Character B, with 40 intel, would be able to obtain 3 extra techniques. Simple, right? Or...instead of having new Zanpakuto abilities/techs, a character could perhaps design a custom kido or cero without the training thread as a reward. Or, if you're the science-y type, perhaps a piece of technology that functions as a technique, i.e. perhaps you replace your left kneecap with a device that shoot a Shakkaho spell every other post or something, minus the incantation.

So anyway, this ends my spiel about how we can turn intel into an actually desirable stat, instead of having characters who are like ridiculously high in all the combat stats but have like 5 in intelligence.
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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:11 pm

Leave it as it is.

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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:17 pm

but as it is, intelligence doesn't really give any measurable benefit- this way, we'll have more balanced characters. i mean, when we create NPC stats for the big dumb type, their intelligences are always low, around 5-ish. PC characters who have the same amount of intelligence should act the same, but pretty much don't, because you can't exactly tell someone to 'rp your character dumber'. this gives more versatility and character balance
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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:37 pm

Ya know i voted to do away with Intell many moons ago but somehow we ended up with it affecting Kido. Anywho, no i don't think it should really make a difference. Sal has 5 Intel, he isn't dumb but he certainly isn't one for tactics unless hack and slash is a tactic o.O


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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:05 pm

I like this idea Ayame, but I think INT should become a "Hidden Factor" Both abilities make sense to me, but telling others about will result in more people trying to play the number game than actually posting. If you look at the Anthony Rourke character Shikuro tried to make. He claims that since his INT is so high he shouldn't have to go through the "boring" low levels. He's made himself a business super genius with his own company with a talking portable computer. Okay he's smart enough for it, but that shouldn't mean you don't start at rank 0. And just by getting high INT we should give them an easy time with techs and abilities. I'm sure everyone would start pumping into INT at that point.

What I mean by hidden factor is that when character suggests a new move, we (mods and admins) look at it when judging if the character can pull it off. When someone is called out for "Godmodding" we look at INT and say "Well he could possibly pull it off." We can fully define the stats, but the less we tell the players about it the better. I've played videogames where I'll try to max the stats to better my character more than I'll try something new and interesting. Classic elf thief for the extra Dexterity, If I can get 2 more Strength, but have to look like crossdressing midget, I'll do it. (don't ask) The idea works honestly. Just that the more numbers matter the less they'll try to write.

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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:11 pm

Erm...I'd hate to be so selfish here but if intel made such a difference myself and squad would be royally fucked really because everyone would claim to be smart enough to dodge all my attacks xP I thought intel affected Kido...Could it not be that you need a certain intel amount ratio thing for higher kido spells?
Or for each 5 intel above 10 or whatever, your char can make an item or their choosing...Like inventions or whatever.
If not, Arawn's idea seems pretty cool Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:07 pm

Me and Sal talked...

Here is what a high intel will affect, and it may be altered further at a later date...

If you have a difference in 20 intel... and RP it correctly... your character may automatically foresee an attack and dodge it OR place a trap/make a feint, once every two posts...

Intel also governs Kido now... You will receive something like, a discount on apps equal to 5 times your intel stat...

Kido power will also increase about 50% for exceptionally high intel. At least 30-40% of your total stat points in intel...

may edit later as I said.....

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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:03 pm

I like everything Mar said, but I kind of think that the inventions idea has merit too. We'd have to make the required intel a major high level like 40 or 50, but at that point PC's should be able to make personal inventions like Urahara and Mayuri always did. Not unlimited inventions of course...maybe one for every increment of 10 stat points in Intel.
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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:13 pm

I already agreed with the inventions bit, I kinda skipped over all that stuff so i didn't know it was an issue.

It must be submitted as an app to be approved by an admin...

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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:18 am

Tech System
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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:59 am

I did just RP an invention. My current INT is only 20. But like I said, I like both options. I plan to add more INT either way, even if it doesn't benefit me lol.

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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:56 pm

Well I've got a question. The intell can foresee an attack if used correctly and it helps with kidou, but what about hallows, quincy, and super-humans who can't use kidou?
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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:17 pm

@Shadow: I imagine it would effect things like cero and quincy techniques...

@Ayame: Ok, I call I M M E N S E bullshit on this E N T I R E thread.
1. What you'r proposing is extremely godmoddy, you're basicly saying that a character with high intelligence should either, A, be able to add a 5+ stat to speed for every 10 points of difference between the user and the enemy, and B, allow for the user to aquire more techniques. Both of these will throw 'Balance' right out of the window. Intel already had a function; Kid, and allowing your character to read your opponents moves easier, as well as battle tactics. And i'm sure you can use intel in many different ways; Lets say Ayame is going to fight Saroki in an all out brawl; Let's say our ranks are the same. Saroki will have the advantage of high spiritual pressure, thus making it harder for Ryouta to move/breathe. And Ryouta has a advantage in intel. This means that not only will he be able to use kidos that Saroki probably doesn't even know about yet, but he'll also be able to read her moves easier (Within a limit.) And formulate a battle tactic against her more efficently. (Within a limit.) And, find her weaknesses easier. You're trying to blow this up more than it should be; And as a response to the "The intelligene stat tells you how sm4rt you are." That has to do with personality, in my opinion, I could have 0 intelligence, shouldn't mean my character is as smart as a rock. It just means he's absolutely usless when it comes to all of the above.

Now, I do agree it isn't exactly a desireable stat, but that doesn't stop people from using it, like you and Arawn. And by doing so you ALREADY gain a large advantage over the rest.

@Marly: I think you guys should change the 'AUTOMATICLY' word in that post. What if my special shikai ability is to see through attacks/blocks? It should be, "AUTOMATICLY (IN MOST CASES.")


And as far as techniques go, i'm ok with things like bodily mods or attack styles/side powers. As long as they are within reason. But I am against weighing on how much you can get on your intel stat. I think it should have to do with your rank, but thats just me.

Anyways, now that i'm done with this rant, seeing as how i've probably pissed some people off..

*Hugs everyone in the thread.* I <3 You.
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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:19 pm

A fine question. For the most part I have no clue. But I can put forth some guesswork. Hollow only have Cero when it comes to spells. So how can they benefit from higher INT? For the most part it might work with the tech like system. You may have only 3 powers, but with high int (alot thought) application of that power might give you a sub power or ability. Really not much more I can think of atm

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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:33 pm

I agree with Ryouta on the fact that Int has become a throw away stat... Honestly from what i've seen while researching the new system... The old one gave Int users more value in what they did. Honestly what use does Int have now? Because thinking in battle wont win you anything with the current system and people wont act dumber if they have low intel. They will try to make their characters think as quickly and as intelligent as possible. This throws away the value of intel. It is like saying Bakuto has a use now on other players... That player will just bust out next post rendering the whole process useless.

We truly need to work on the Int and Kidou system, for as the site is.. The physical shine as the dominant force. And you cannot cast away my opinion for I am technically a mod as well, not this profile but still. I think it saddened me that i've been gone for over a year and the kidou based squads (a.e. 4th and 5th) are barren. So i think maybe a watered down version of what Ryouta's system would be great... Let us all pull together and make this work...

I am sorry if i ticked any of you off... If I did.. Then fix the problem i ticked you off over. I don't want to be a foe, I just want to get things done. As an ex-mod this is my goal for the site.
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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:17 pm

@Saroki: Ahh Kido, I see a certain captain with five intelgence pulling of, or at least trying to, a hado 91. *coughkaiyocough*

And yeah so a purpose, so... hmm there is no rank 3's... so lets use you and Ayame for example... So his 25 point difference in intel is really going to help overturn a 14 point difference in Spirit power. No. Not really, and i have seen characters come up with clever stragies with or without an intel stat...
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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:42 pm

@Darkness: That isn't the fucking point Darkness. Ryouta is already going to have a much higher intel than Saroki, I refer to my previous post for the numerous advantages of having a higher intel than your opponent. But now he's gaining a magical stat boost in speed just because he's smarter than me? To me it seems like cheating...Anyhow Marlamin already 'fixed' it, so this thread should be locked...
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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:21 am

my original system idea isn't at all what's being implemented. as far as i'm concerned, my intelligence stat only grants me what Marly said. sorry for the confusion

Marlamin1 wrote:
Me and Sal talked...

Here is what a high intel will affect, and it may be altered further at a later date...

If
you have a difference in 20 intel... and RP it correctly... your
character may automatically foresee an attack and dodge it OR place a
trap/make a feint, once every two posts...

Intel also governs Kido now... You will receive something like, a discount on apps equal to 5 times your intel stat...

Kido power will also increase about 50% for exceptionally high intel. At least 30-40% of your total stat points in intel...

may edit later as I said.....
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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:52 am

Well, I'm not much for getting involved in such disputes, but I have to say I kinda agree with Saroki in one respect. The first ability granted with higher intelligence seems a bit much. I mean honestly anything automatic based solely upon stats is kinda a moot point, however I do understand the kido compensation which occurs to me that I have none at the moment and I'm the freakin' Captain Commander O__o...

*goes to resume training*
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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:33 am

Ahh Kaito here is where you are wrong

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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:17 pm

Yeah i thought what Ryouta said happened....plus in my defense ya know, i do make Kaiyo bad at Kidou Razz And she did DIE from using it Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:00 pm

I've voted for the Tech System, as that is sorta reasonable and the only one of the ideas I would support though as it is is also fine as it is really. If you feel neglected and unfairly treated by the fact that you ain't getting enough for your Int maybe that just weren't the char for you really.

A high Int char would have battle Tactics and measurements to predict stuff allready as it is, make out plans for escaping useing the enviroments better and stuff like that. Set up traps... as those who haven't got atleast some int on their chars have proberly never even thought about setting up traps to help you, and to plan ahead before facing someone, all depending on how you've been wanting your char to use its Int you can even make a Char thats good at profilling predicting movements even so much that after facing another char you might be able to even say lure him into a field cause you knew the char would answer and that way make the battle be fought on your terms. I expect if you use ranged weapons aswell Int would have just as high a factor to hitting as Fighting skill as the mesurements of Distance, speed, and wind comes very much into play, maybe not in mid ranged, but in high ranged such as sniping or something it really should.

Too Clarify something... I never said I should skip the first few ranks cause of the high Int I said I would like to ask for more ranks so my Char would be able to do more than he could with the stats plot wise... as what I want him to do right now I can't due to the fact a Rank 0 shouldn't be able to do that.

And Marly the Kido int benefit is really a good thing, but with that you're only giving reasons for Shinigami to pick the stat not Superhumans, Quincy's or anyone else.
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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:40 pm

Not Sure if my opinion matters at this time due to me being new and this being my first post I do believe that Intell. is impotant in order to balance stats. But it should be broken down diffrently for each race allowing for more diversity.

HOLLOW: There Cero, Any Reiastu based Attack & Ability should be affected. Cero though a common move is VERY powerful, If the intellegence stat is of Decent proportions then, A Hollow can gain either a new area to shoot Cero or a more balanced power efficent Cero. Any reiastu based attack should be based on: How much reiastu the hollow has,the hollows endurance, & how well the hollow can shoot Cero (controlling the amount of Reiastu using Intell.) A smarted Hollow can efficently keep battling in long fights compared to a stronger dumb one. Dodging should be affected by How long the fight has been going on, How much endurance they have left & How smart enough they are not to tire them selfs fighting.

SHINIGAMI: There Kido,Ability to dodge,Shikai/Bankai ability, & any reiastu based attacks. Kido, if there intell is high a shinigami will know a good amount of kido (I think someone stated this already). Also it should affect how efficent & how powerful it would be. A person with higher intell should do about the same damage without incantation as someone who has lower intell & does the incantation. Shikai & Bankai ability's should be locked until they are of seating position OR there intell. is higher than someone 4-5 seats ahead of them. (This does sound bad but if someone tried to bunk up there intell just for a quick shikai & banaki they will be pitifully weak in other areas.) Any reiastu based attacks as stated statedi n Hollow section. Ability to dodge is the same as well & Ability to dodge.

SUPERHUMANS- This one was tricky, as humans are humans & they have special powers. I had their ability to dodge ,& How much power they use up (Any reiatsu attack) But Inorder to keep them balanced, I had to throw in one thing RAGE! In a pinch (The fight is begining to drag or get slow) A human can spark rage (PMing a GM & they will read through how well the human fought & give them a stat boost for that fight (0-10 for each stat; Randomly at best :] )
After about 10 or so posts the chracter goes through withdrawl which is Minus each stat they gained like (5+2=7 :after 10 posts: 5-2=3) Making them Very Weak.

I can think about Bounto & Quincy but this is just what I think should be given that's all lol
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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:54 am

Thank you for your opinion. This is still a hot topic though I believe this thread is rather outdated.

We are trying to decide if Intelligence is the wrong word for it now. No one can say for sure exactly what a character knows, only experience can show that and there is a huge gap between birth and now that isn't covered by RP so who knows if Character F was a chemist back in the day or not... Wisdom might be better for describing how one uses their knowledge instead. So what if they know something, if they can't recall that info fast enough it might cost them their life.

This would still apply to all cero/kido/ginto/etc. so no change there... In fact, it may govern over it more than rank, which is the current state of it all now. If you are Rank 0, you have Bakudo and Hado 1-10... No way to specialize. So maybe it should be based off of intel/wisdom... 2 kido for every point of wisdom, you'd need 100 wisdom to know them all... *shrug*

As you can probably tell from my ramblings, we've been chucking ideas back and forth for quite a while now and no solid plan has come up...

All we know is that INTELLIGENCE needs fixed... so do other things... We were also thinking about giving bounts and superhumans old fashioned magic spells to balance them with shinigami, hollows, and quincy... We've already done the same when it comes to shunpo. Shukuchi is now usable by superhumans and other such classes that don't have a shunpo-esque power at rank 2...

OK! It's late, I've just turned 19! Go me! And it's time for bed, If any of this made sense, then good. If not, nod your head slowly and walk away Razz

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PostSubject: Re: The Intelligence Stat   Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:07 am

Well we could give Humans & Bounto like Hirenyaku, in order to give them a form of shunpo that is supposedly weaker (Humans are suppose to be physically weaker but have great ability) & give Humans something more than magic, that's too common. Humans/ Bounto need something only they can possess that is significantly diffrent. (Bounto could have bitto tubes ?) Also just by changing the name of the stat isint going to fix the problem Intellegence/Wisdom can't be based on a life or death situation in most cases cause even an idioit knows not to let that Giant Beam of Red Flashing light hit them. I believe Intell should be more of a give or get game. Yes you are EXtremly Smart but you are too weak to do anything or yea your super stong & fast but you can't use supernatural power that well. Also thanks for respong to my post, I thought I osted in like a mega dead thread.
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The Intelligence Stat
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